This recording features the Sunday Talk portion of the service. For the full service watch here.
DESCRIPTION
Thomas Merton said that, “Love is our true destiny. We do not find the meaning of life by ourselves—we find it with one another.” Now, perhaps more than ever in modern times, we look to each other through eyes of love to find meaning, to make sense of our world and what we are living through.
On Sunday, August 10th, Cityside is hosting an Interfaith Forum where we will hear from spiritual leaders from various faith paths to learn how other people of faith understand the world and the human experience.
By fostering these interfaith encounters we strengthen bonds of connection across religions and spiritual paths, knowing our Oneness despite differences of expression or practices. Please join us on August 10th for what will be an interesting and enlightening conversation.
We have invited people from each of these spiritual leader’s communities to attend our service so please bring dishes to share for the fellowship time we will have after service.
SUMMARY
This interfaith forum brought together religious and spiritual leaders from a diverse range of faiths, including Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and nature-based spirituality. The panel discussed the core principles and understandings of their respective traditions, with a focus on the concept of oneness or unity that underlies many of these paths. Key themes included:
– The different ways that traditions understand and relate to a higher power or divine source, whether as a personal God, an impersonal force, or something beyond dualistic notions.
– The emphasis on interconnectedness, community, and our shared humanity that is central to these faiths, even amid their diverse expressions.
– The challenges of religious fundamentalism and how traditions can be misused to justify division and suffering, versus the opportunity to embrace pluralism and work towards greater understanding.
– The role of spiritual practices like meditation, prayer, and gratitude in reconnecting us to the sacred and to each other.
Overall, the panel highlighted the common threads and shared values that unite these traditions, and the importance of interfaith dialogue and collaboration in healing the world.
TRANSCRIPTION
This transcription was auto-generated, please excuse typos, errors and omissions.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Okay, now that we’ve set up a little bit here, welcome everyone to our first ever interfaith forum. I’m Reverend Judy Ranniger-Meza. My pronouns are she, her and I will be introducing our lovely panel in just a moment. But before I do, I just want to welcome to anyone who is here to members of the Buddhist Temple of Chicago, Circle Sanctuary, the American Islamic College, Temple Shalom of Chicago, and supporters of Dr. Archana Lal-Tabak, who are here today to experience the forum and to support their faith leaders. So let’s give a warm Cityside welcome to all of our guests.
Now, besides Cityside, I’m most familiar with the temple, the Buddhist Temple of Chicago. I’ve attended services there. That’s where I have met Rev. Patty in the past and I’m quite familiar with one of their members as I happen to be married to him and he’s here today. So say hello to Carlos in the back. So the form of the forum is quite simple. I have a series of questions that I’m going to be putting to the panelists that will help us understand how they see and understand the world from the perspective of their respective faith paths. As you may have noticed as you came in, there are index cards and pencils on your chair. So if you have a question, please write that down. And toward the end of the forum time, I will have the ushers collect those. So just put ’em up in the air and they’ll pick them up.
I can’t promise we’re going to get to them, actually. I hope that we can, but we really want to devote as much time to the panelists answering the questions as possible. So in a usual run of service, we have a spiritual practitioner come up and offer the reading, lead us in a brief meditation and then open with our service with prayer because we’re streamlining things today, not as many songs and whatnot, I’m going to be offering the reading in just a moment. But before I do, I’m just going to ask the panelists to come up and take their seats.
Okay, so the reading that I selected today, I think really embodies and captures the spirit of what we’re trying to do here today with this interfaith dialogue and the song you heard sung about healing the world. So this is a reading that was something written by a fellow interfaith minister from the same seminary that I graduated from, and it’s called Together by Reverend Wendy Harris. During our brief time together, let’s not talk about our differences. I don’t want you to tell me that my religion is better than your religion. I want to share our experience of God. I don’t want you to tell me that your religion is the only way. I want you to tell me how God makes a difference in your life.
Let’s not discuss theologies and creeds, but how we feel God’s presence in the loneliness of our soul’s dark night. Let’s not repent and atone and do penance and make our knees soar. Instead, let us share our deepest fear and our deepest joy and know we are the same. How does it feel to be abandoned, broken, worthless, or when it is your child trapped in the wreckage or when loss and injustice take us by surprise. And is life so transient, so meaningless? Are we not more than this? We walk in Buddha’s sacred steps. We follow Christ’s holy feet. We dance to Krishna’s flute and make the prophet’s pilgrimage. So many beautiful paths to the mountains peak.
But did you notice that last night the setting sun lit up the raindrops in the tips of the trees like crimson fairy lights. That a tiny black and white bug is delicately walking across the floor. That the scent of one stem of freesia flowers is permeating the whole room. That the elderly sheep in the field opposite mistakes herself for a lamb in the spring and frolics absurdly delightedly.
So for a while, let’s not compare our sacred texts. Instead, let us be still and feel the touch of Buddha’s hand on the earth. Let us be quiet and hear the tender heart of Christ beating in our chests. Let us dance the sacred dance with reverence and mindfully sense the way of things. Let us lovingly call each other to prayer and joyfully thank the great Spirit which permeates all things and forever gently calls us to notice our divinity in the midst of our humanity. Let us be aware that our deepest human sufferings and our greatest human joys when acknowledged as ours, teach us to let go of our judgment, celebrate our diversity, nurture our unity, and set us at the threshold, the open doorway to the peace of God which passive all understanding. And to that, I say amen. And so it’s
Okay. So with that, I would like to introduce our panelists. We have with us today Rabbi Max Antman, who serves as the assistant rabbi at Temple Shalom Chicago. He was recently ordained by Hebrew Union College Jewish Institute of Religion, where he also completed a certificate in Jewish organizational leadership. Rabbi Antman is passionate about leveraging his rabbinic voice for social change and believes that the most impactful justice work stems from intentional relationship building across lines of difference.
Of course, those of us from Cityside know Aimee well. But for those of you who are joining us for the first time today, Reverend Aimee Daniel serves as a spiritual director for Cityside Center for Spiritual Living. She is an ordained Centers for Spiritual Living minister and has a master’s of Consciousness study from the Holmes Institute. She believes that we are all one, and that as we deepen on our spiritual nature, our actions become more loving and the world is changed. Her life has been profoundly changed by embracing a spiritual path, and it is her joy to share that gift with others.
Archana Lal-Tabak is a familiar face to many of us here at Cityside, having been around since the days of CSL Bodhi and now Cityside. Dr. Archana Lal-Tabak is an Integrative and Holistic Physician and ordained Transdenominational Minister rooted in the Hindu tradition. She is a welcomed presenter at the Arya Samaj of Greater Chicago and is part of a family lineage that includes one of the movement’s founders, her great-grand uncle, Anand. She is trained in SYDA Yoga, Transcendental Meditation, Sudarshan Kriya, and Oneness/Ekam practices, and brings decades of experience in Ayurveda, Vastu, Homeopathy, and trauma-informed mind-body medicine..
I was fortunate to meet our next panelist when I participated in an interfaith trolley tour that originated and ended at the American Islamic College. Romana Mansoor serves as the director of the Hassan Institute for Interfaith Encounter at American Islamic College. She holds an MA in interreligious studies from Catholic Theological Union and a Master’s in Education and Higher Education Administration from Loyola University of Chicago. In addition to coordinating interfaith programming, Romana serves as the Associate Vice President for accreditation and institutional Research and effectiveness.
I met Reverend Patty Nakai before she retired and was witness to her gentle spirit and wise leadership of the Buddhist Temple of Chicago where she served as minister from 1995 to 2023. During that time, she became involved in interfaith and social justice activities and during retirement, she volunteers as a court watcher and teaches Buddhism online to people incarcerated in state prisons.
Many in our community may not realize that Judith, who attends here at Cityside is an ordained minister herself, Reverend Judith Seizys is in an ordained minister of Circle Sanctuary, which is located in southwestern Wisconsin. Circle is a nature-based religion honoring eight Sabbats a year, the winter and summer solstice, spring and fall equinoxes, and the four quarters between them as well as the cycles of the moon and our lives. She gives weekly nature spirituality services for the recruits going through bootcamp at Naval Station Great Lakes and facilitates monthly online full Moon circle broadcasts.
So as you can see, we have a very learned and experienced panel of faith leaders and we are so happy that they’re here today to lend their wisdom to this forum. So with that, we’ll begin.
Let’s get this out the way. So I have been using faith path as a general term to describe the belief systems we have represented here today, but we have some that are kind of commonly thought of as religions and others, perhaps not. So my first question is to you Reverend Patty, in my sophisticated Google search that I did on this, it’s said that Buddhism is considered a religion by some and a belief system, a philosophy. In your opinion, how do you regard Buddhism? Is it a religion, is it a faith path? Is it a belief system, a philosophy? How do you see it?
Rev. Patti Nakai:
Yeah, I usually say it is a religion in that the original of the word religion means to realign, to reconnect. And so Buddhism is a path to help us reconnect to real life, actual real life and not what’s in our head or what the society says. Life is supposed to be supposed to help us reconnect to our really deepest, deepest life and the life that’s all around us. So I think it is a religion. I hate to say philosophy because philosophy sounds so intellectual, right? Religion sounds like you’re in the world doing concrete practice.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you. Thank you. So I’m going to pose a similar question to you Reverend Judith. Obviously we have some Abrahamic religions here present today who have a belief in a creator God, right? And in whom one places one’s faith. So in nature’s spirituality, is there faith involved and what does that look like?
Rev. Judith Seizys:
Well, the interesting thing about this path is that we have so many people that practice so many different, either Greek or Roman or Norse or Celtic. So there are a lot of different people that worship all those different gods and goddesses. But in the long run, I believe all of us believe that we’re all connected to source and that we use those different religions in order to help us understand this human life that we are living. And so it’s really fun to be able to practice those many different things. I personally, I’m a pantheist. I believe that the divine is in everything and that everything is divine, which is a little hard to reckon with the cruelty and evil that we see in the world. But I also believe that that’s how our human consciousness is continuing to evolve because we can’t know the light if we don’t also know the dark.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Okay. So I’m going to pose a similar question then to you Reverend Aimee. Science of Mind is not considered a religion. So how do you regard it? And again, what is the concept of faith within Science of Mind? And if that leads you into how Science of Mind understands God, go for it. You’ve got two minutes.
Rev. Aimee Daniels:
Okay, (just kidding, kidding.) Great. So technically centers for spiritual living is a philosophy, but listening to what Patty said about reconnecting, I think that that is very true. And what Judith said about source, what we believe is that we would say God is all there is, or pick the word you like. But this idea that there is a presence and a power that we are part of, but it works through us and we are part of it, and that through our path and our daily practices, then we reconnect with that. So that’s the reason we practice, is to reconnect with that part of ourselves, which call it what you want, your inner self, your higher self, your divine self, but to reconnect with that spirit. And what was it? Did I miss? Part of your question? Just our concept of God. Oh, the concept of God.
So God is ever present everywhere, present. I like to think of it as God is the energy that creates all of this that also created you and that is creating your life. And that we work with that energy consciously to affirm what we want to call forth in the world. So I’m just going to say one more thing about faith. So like we would say our faith is in the fact that this presence is always with us in spite of what is going on in the world and that we can call forth something else through our affirmations and our prayers.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you. So that’s going to be my question to the rest of the panel then. Now, how does your path understand God or higher power, or is that even a concept within your path? So Romano, I will start with you. How do believers in Islam understand? God?
Romana Manzoor:
Thank you. Yeah, I mean everything actually I’ve heard so far is relatable. Especially the reading, talking about the rain and the blossoms. Those in Islam are considered the A yet or the signs of God’s love and mercy. And so spirituality is deeply embedded in the tradition of Islam. Those signs of beauty then engender gratitude. And then after gratitude, which is a very big concept in Islam, and I’m going to just go back a little, the concept of God, we always say
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Ram, can you put your mic
Romana Manzoor:
On?
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you.
Romana Manzoor:
Can you hear me better?
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Yes.
Romana Manzoor:
99 attributes. And so just two of the attributes are that God is infinitely compassionate and merciful, and so gratitude is tied into understanding one’s own spirituality and that is a path that could lead to a higher consciousness, if you will. And yeah, we can talk more, but I just wanted to start with that. Thank you.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you. So Rabbi Max, let’s get the Jewish from the Jewish perspective, the concept of God.
Rev. Max Antman:
So I think if you lined up 10 rabbis and asked them what the Jewish understanding of God, as you would get 10 different answers. Jews have been wrestling with exactly what or who God is for thousands of years, which I think is actually a part of the beauty of the process of defining God. But Jewish theologians have understood God as omniscient, omnipresent, not present, throughout time. And I would say my personal understanding of God, I resonate most closely with a Jewish theologian named Emmanuel Levinas, who spoke about God as the faces of every person you see. So a stranger, your friend, a family member in their face you see the face of God and the divinity within all of the people that are interconnected in our world allows you to understand the divine in a deeper way. But other rabbis would have different perspectives. A thousand years old tradition, lots of opinions.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
So Dr. Archana then, I think when people think of Hinduism, they think of lots of gods, maybe too many to keep track of, at least for me. So can you explain the concept of God within Hinduism and also how Hinduism can be both monotheistic and polytheistic at the same time?
Archana Lal-Tabak:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you Judy. Reverend Judy. Yes, I’ve really enjoyed everyone’s answers and the reading that you shared. Yeah, Hinduism does carry both. It carries the monotheistic as well as the pantheistic. There’s as many gods as there are people on earth because what it’s about is your relationship with the universe. So I think even Mark Anthony, who started Cityside talked about when he went to India to Ekam, there were so many gods because everyone had their personal relationship with God. So really it’s about the individual’s connection with the divine in that context. Then there are many incarnations of God, and that means that there’s a God and a goddess for every occasion. So you’ve got Ganesh who removes the obstacles, and Lakshmi who is the goddess of prosperity and abundance and Sarasvati who’s the goddess of arts and recreation and just beautiful hobbies and the things that you love to do, your passions. I mean, there’s a God for everything we could go on, but we’d have a hundred minutes and a hundred gods to share.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Archana, can I ask you then do all of those gods stem from a one source? Is that the concept?
Archana Lal-Tabak:
Yeah, so the idea is that everything comes from one aspect, meaning the universe is made up of elements and it’s about 6,000 years old. So we’re talking like you pray and do hovens to all the elements like you do in native cultures as well, and you honor all the seasons. And the source is really almost like love. A Ekam means ache, which means one oneness. And I’ve been trained in many meditation and spiritual traditions. My family comes from Aria, and that is a sec that actually lets everyone pray and do the hovens. So they rejected the caste system and allow, my mom could do the hovens and she’s probably watching online, so hi mom. But anyway, so yeah, that’s how we think of it. There’s a source, a universe, and then all manifests from that source.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you. Thank you. So Reverend Judith, I’m sorry, I’m going to go to Reverend Patty. Buddhism is not usually thought of as having a belief in God or a higher power, but is there a higher something?
Rev. Patti Nakai:
I thank you for that question. There are Buddhists who claim to be atheist. And I think if you look at Buddhist history, but especially my denomination is the pure land path. And even back in Buddha’s time, the problem with so-called atheism is people think they’re the God and everybody else is their subject. So the Buddha wants us to turn that around and see that we are part of this larger life. And so I don’t usually say higher power, but we use this term other power, meaning the power that surrounds us and deep, deep within us that’s beyond the ego. So it doesn’t mean something dualistic, but it means something beyond our ego self. So that’s what the Buddha said, don’t get caught up in your ego, in your self-centeredness. So there is this teaching of other power. So yeah, I don’t use the word higher power. It’s really all over. Yeah, we use that term other power.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Okay. So Reverend Judith then from the nature of spirituality perspective, this idea of the higher power?
Rev. Judith Seizys:
Well, again, there’s so many different ways to look at it. You could look at it the Native American way that really honors the land and it was established on the mother turtle. We are very much intertwined with everything that’s living and alive. And I personally believe in the energetic vibration of everything. I mean even the rocks will eventually vibrate and break down. So everything is a part of the movement of everything else. So to me, that’s kind of the higher power that it is, the energy force, the divinity essentially in everything.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you so much. I’ve been using the term Science of Mind and people who are here that may not be familiar with Science Mind, maybe not even some of our panelists. I’m just going to turn to Reverend Aimee and ask you to describe briefly what science of mind is and what the major tenants or principles are of this path.
Rev. Aimee Daniels:
Okay. So I would say just to pick up on the higher power thing, I think we believe that there is a higher power, but I think of it more as energy. It’s not like – I grew up as a Methodist, so it’s not the white guy on the throne somewhere. It’s not something that you’re separate from. Ernest Holmes, who was our founder, said, there’s a power for good and you can use it. So the way that I think about our teaching is we say love and law. So the love is all that there is. The love is what you might conventionally call God, what you might call the energy of the universe, the creative force. But it comes into our life experience through the law. And if you think about the law is like cause and effect, just in simple terms, what I put out comes back to me.
That’s the simplest way to think about it. So we’re very big on praying affirmatively, and when we pray affirmatively, we remind ourselves of our connection to God, spirit, source, whatever you call it, and that we are one with it. So oneness is a big part of our teaching. I liked what you said about seeing God in every face because we would agree with that also. But then through our affirmative thoughts, prayers, the things that the energy we put out to the world, then we create our experience in the world of form. And that’s sort of a short version of what Science of Mind is.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you, Aimee. So I’d like to hear from our other panelists in terms of this question about the major principles that guide your religion, or you can put it another way. How does your religion or path understand the nature of the universe and human being’s relationship to it? So Romana, I’ll put that question to you first and then go to Rabbi Max.
Romana Manzoor:
Sure, thank you. So I talked about the Aya, the signs of God, which often the easiest place to find those are in nature, and then it engenders gratitude. But the other element I want to bring up is that this relationship with God and this love and mercy that’s seen and this gratitude also engenders sense of stewardship. And so as stewards, we should care for the earth as stewards, we should care for each other. And so that’s a type of calling that I feel that Muslims try to practice as part of their faith tradition and together all of that and realizing that which is the hard part, and knowing that and feeling that can lead to a greater sense of consciousness, that we are all connected and that this is all from the divine source, this love. So if that makes sense. So talking about divine source and talking about love and mercy, again, these are attributes for God and in our tradition we refer to God as Allah. And so there is this concept also of oneness through that connection.
Rev. Max Antman:
Reverend Judy, can you repeat the question again
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Just to describe the major principles that guide the religion or just how did the Jewish people understand your place in the world? And
Rev. Max Antman:
Yeah, I mean because Judaism is a religion and also an ethnicity and a peoplehood God is one of many ways to connect. There are a number of Jewish people who would say they don’t believe in God, but would still identify as very, very Jewish. And so I would say the tenets of Judaism are God, learning and spirituality. So God, Torah learning and spirituality, and you can connect with other people in any one of those ways, and a myriad of other ways. But very similarly to what everybody else has said, I think those who believe in God and those who don’t, Judaism is a living tradition. It’s focused on the way that we act in this world today. And all of the teachings and belief in God’s center around the way that we treat other human beings, the way that we welcome people into our space, the way that we interact with people who we may disagree with, the entire tradition is focused around how to live a good, meaningful justice filled life. So whether that’s centers God or not, the principles of connectivity with other people and bringing about a more justice filled loving world. I liked what you said before, Aimee, I think love is at the center of all of it. And whether love is in God form or not, I think Judaism is open to either or.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Okay, thank you. Thank you. There’s a lot of talk about oneness here that we’re going to get to a little bit in more deeply, but go ahead, Dr. Archana, in terms of,
Archana Lal-Tabak:
Yeah, so Hinduism really from my understanding, goes back 6,000 years to the Vedantic times, to the Vedas, to the Indus Valley civilization and also the dravadians in South India. And there are three main aspects of the gods that start the creation. It’s called the Samkai philosophy of life. And they start with the creator, the preserver and the destroyer. So Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, we might’ve heard of some of these gods. And then they create a male and female aspect, which would be the Shiva and the Shakti. And as we come into the personhood, you’re coming in with all the elements of the universe. And so then you have the five senses. We could go on with Ayurveda about this. The main idea though is that we all are connected to the cells and the energy of everything. So it’s actually very similar to Science of Mind that we create in the form through what’s happening in our thoughts.
So the practices of meditation, of prayer, of gratitude, of kindness to each other and compassion of honoring nature, of eating properly, living a healthy lifestyle are all part of the way Ayurveda and Hinduism express in the world. And I heard one of the Punit Chi speak from the Himalayan Institute once, and he said they have all the practices of Hinduism because they want people to live in a healthy way through Ayurveda, which I thought was a very remarkable comment. So my mom practices every single day in her cooking, in her actions, in her behaviors, and she’s doing Ayurveda through Hinduism. It’s part of the fabric of the society. It’s so embedded in the culture and in the food, and in everything people do in Hinduism.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you.
Archana Lal-Tabak:
So that’s really a beautiful thing.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
So I’m going to move on to Reverend Reverend Judith first, I’m sorry. My understanding of nature spirituality is that it has many iterations, different threads from earth-based religions to pantheism to spiritual naturalism. So are there common practices or guiding principles or tenets that are common to each?
Rev. Judith Seizys:
Yeah, I think there are a lot of principles that are common to all of these religions in that what we put out, we get back, your words are far more powerful than, so you need to use them with care. And your energy really does affect everything around you, your thoughts, your prayers. You could call prayer anything you want, but essentially it is manifesting your desire and putting it out there. And so yeah, everything is interconnected. And so we really feel strongly about caring for the environment. We have strong environmental activism going on because what we do to the earth, and this is Native American, what we do to the earth, we do to ourselves, we spit on the earth, we spit on ourselves. And that was Chief Seattle, I believe in the 16 hundreds. So we also draw a lot from Native Americans, but all of it is very pre-Christian, very old. And we have people that have come to this path that are also Jewish. So they’re Judeo pagans and Christian pagans because they honor their past path that the religion they grew up with. But they also are starting to realize how important our interaction with the world around us is and how responsible we are for that.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
So Reverend Pat, in terms of Buddhism in the Buddhist perspective, how do Buddhism, what is this thing called life? How do we understand the nature of the universe?
Rev. Patti Nakai:
Yeah, I have to say, I’m really resonating with what everyone’s saying. And one of the statements I wanted to make right up front is that I’m part of a movement called the Asian Heritage Buddhist, that so much of what a lot of people think Buddhism is in the West is really a colonized version of Buddhism. And so the Asian heritage movement, we’re trying to get back, especially through better translations to what the Buddha was actually saying and coming out of this culture from India of oneness. And so my tradition, the English translation is pure land. But if you go back to the Sanskrit roots and the Chinese roots, the first part of the concept is flowing this, and I think you mentioned that, right? Flowing to recognize life is flowing, but also the second Chinese character means groundedness. So we need to be flowing and grounded.
And I say it is we’re waves and particles we’re made up of waves and particles. And so that’s why the real teaching of Buddhism is always in communities. It’s always in connection with others. And the trouble with the western version of Buddhism sometimes it just seems so isolating and individualistic. So getting back to the Asian heritage, we’re trying to bring Buddhism back to the idea of community practice is done especially like meditation. And Carlos knows that meditation is done in community, not as an individual self-improvement thing, but it is done to open your heart to the other people around you. So that’s one thing I want to emphasize about Buddhism, that a lot of what you heard Buddhism is really just a colonized version of Buddhism, and we’re trying to people in our Asian heritage movement and trying to get Buddhism back to the roots that all of you I have been talking about. Yeah.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Okay. So let’s go back to this concept of oneness. And I’ll start with you. Rabbi Max. As you know, the Shama prayer is a central tenet of the Jewish faith. And for those that may not know, the Shama prayer goes like this here, oh, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. So it does my understanding from a kabbalistic interpretation of the Shama prayer that it is that this oneness or this indivisibility of God connects to the unity that underlies and connects all life. And again, for people who might not be aware, Kabbalah is a mystical form of Judaism. So is that idea of God common throughout the Jewish thought, or is that specific to Kabbalah?
Rev. Max Antman:
No, it’s consistent throughout the tradition. We actually, we read a specific portion of the Torah every single week, and the portion that we just read yesterday actually included the Shama, so very topical, which we only get to read once a year. And obviously as one of the Abrahamic fates, we believe that there’s oneness in divinity. But I think that oneness hero, Israel Adonai is our God. Adonai is one or the Lord is your God, the Lord is one. The oneness of God I think expands more holistically to not only the Jewish people, but the world as a whole and the interconnectedness between human beings and our responsibility with and to one another. So it’s not just Kabbalah, it’s I think consistent throughout the tradition about the oneness of not only God, but also the Jewish people and humanity and what that entails about the way that we communicate with one another, the way that we treat one another and the way our world functions, that there’s a oneness and a unity to all of it.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you. Thank you, Judy. Yeah, we’re at the five minute mark. Okay. Romana, I’m just going to ask you, in terms of the Jewish and Islamic face, we know they both have origins in the Bible and they’re essentially cousins having a shared history through the lineage of Abraham. So it would be hard to notice this in the world today, the way people, and for all time the way people hijack religion for political purposes and certainly on both sides of the current conflicts. But does this shared history imply that Islam and Judaism are indeed one? And feel free to comment on oneness in general?
Romana Manzoor:
Thank you so much.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
That’s a bigger question. I wasn’t trying to save the hard ones for you, but
Romana Manzoor:
Yes, I would say so because again,
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Put it under your chin.
Romana Manzoor:
In the Islamic tradition, there is only one, right? And so if the one is the source acknowledging that there are others or that there are differences, then it just, that obviously is not the right math. It doesn’t add up. So yes, I mean, expanding on tahi or the oneness of God, the idea is that nothing exceeds God. So there’s no partners, money can’t matter more than God. Other desires can’t matter more than God. Other conflicts can’t matter more. And so I think part of just the journey in this faith tradition and I think just in life in general is figuring out how to achieve that gratitude, or I should say how to recognize that gratitude all around us, how to work together because there’s something beyond what’s just right in front of us. There’s something greater, and obviously that is God, the source of love and mercy. And so it’s actually a test for us too. If those two names are among the attributes of God, then those are the attributes we should also be trying to achieve in our life. And so yeah, I think it’s all possible. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Go ahead, Dr. Archana.
Archana Lal-Tabak:
Yes. I just want to say that in Hinduism, the word yog, yoga means union with the divine, with the oneness, and also all the colors are present in the chakras. So we have all heard of the chakras perhaps, and that also is connecting with the divine and the oneness out there in the universe. And then with each other as well, there’s connection. So the goal of all the practices is to be fully accepting and loving of all people and to be in service of the universe and the divine, and to manifest our gifts, we can actually create new bodies in seven years with the forum that we have in our mindset. So definitely in Hinduism, oneness is a major part of the principle, and the goal is bliss or anin, which is a common word in Hinduism as well. So we are definitely all into the oneness of it all
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
In the oneness. Alright, let’s get Reverend Patty and Reverend Judith in on this. Then we’re going to stop to see if we have questions. So it’s the one missed question.
Rev. Patti Nakai:
Yeah, I think that’s very true, that the Buddha came at a time when warfare was so prevalent. His own father was a professional general, you could say. So when this is to recognize that our connection to each other was so important. So that concept of oneness, the
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Buddha did teach oneness,
Rev. Patti Nakai:
Huh?
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
The Buddha did
Rev. Patti Nakai:
Teach oneness. Oh yeah, that we’re all connected. We’re all part of one reality.
Rev. Judith Seizys:
So the hermetic principle states that as above, so below as within so without, and so that pretty much wraps it up for me.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Well, that was brief, thank you. I told them at the beginning that the beatitude I learned in the interfaith seminary was blessed are the brief. So thank you all for that. If you have questions, could you raise your cards up in the air?
(online Quincy has a question I wanted to share with you. Okay. She asks Rev. Aimee, particularly of all these beautiful paths or our options for all of us, why Science of Mind, why
Can you repeat the question?
Rev. Aimee Daniels:
Okay, so the question is, of all these beautiful paths, why Science of Mind? It’s a question from someone online. Ernest Holmes, Quincy, Ernest Holmes studied all the major paths. I mean, he studied Hinduism, he studied everything. And one of the things he taught was that we should be open at the top. So we shouldn’t inhabit anything like a dogma that we use as a baseball bat over someone else. Those are my words. I don’t think Ernest would’ve said that, but I think it is really about why Science of Mind, because I think for me, and I think everything that everyone has talked about is valid and is part of our path. I learned a lot this morning just hearing everyone talk. I’m like, wow, I didn’t know that. But I think our particular path, I think we’re open and it’s not better than any other path, but it gives a way to practice and to pull into your every day all the teachings that everyone has talked about.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Okay, thank you. So we have a question here that says, everyone is speaking on oneness. And the question really is, where did the divisions begin and why? Answer that in a couple of minutes.
Rev. Judith Seizys:
Human nature, we are born into conflict because this is what we need to understand in this earth school. And so we need to experience, as I mentioned earlier, the dark in order to understand the light. And this is like I understand the most complicated incarnation that we could ever ask for, and we ask for it cause we have things to learn here.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Does anyone else have an idea about that?
Rev. Aimee Daniels:
I know I already answered a question, but I do have an idea about it. One of the things that I think happens with spiritual texts is they’re created by people who are having a direct experience of whatever it is that is being taught. And I’d be curious what others thinks about that. So they’ve actually, if you think about going back to Christianity, people who were practicing Christians who wrote things, they were having a direct experience just as probably in the Old Testament, people were having a direct experience, texts were written for the people of the day, they knew what they meant. And so a lot of times people take the texts now they take them literally like, well, when it said this in the Bible, it meant that, right? And so I would say the division comes from people wanting to be right about their path instead of saying like, no, every path is valid. If it leads to source to God, whatever your word is, if it leads you to your higher self, it’s a valid path. So I’ll shut up now.
Archana Lal-Tabak:
I just wanted to share that as I’m thinking about the divisions, at least in Hinduism and Ayurveda, we think of different parts or different doshas or different elements that are out of balance in our body. And actually those gods and goddesses represent different parts of ourselves. So for example, there’s one goddess named Kali, and she’s like the dark shiva, the dark creator and the destroyer, and she takes all the darkness and the evil in the world and just eats it all up. And then I know in Native American culture, sometimes they talk about giving and Buddhism to giving the darkness to the earth it can hold it. So sometimes when we go out of balance, we have these aspects that take over. And if we’re not doing our meditation, our prayer, our daily practices, our prayer partners or whatever we are going to do in whatever path we’re in, we can get sucked up into that darkness and the divisions happen. And then there is unsteadiness and violence as well. And then the fundamentalists also compartmentalize. So if the core of each of these is love, but we get into these parts that are out of balance, it gets to be manifest in the world.
Romana Manzoor:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you. So I’m going to just flip this a little bit. In the Islamic tradition, diversity is by design. So there’s a phrase in the Quran that says, God made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another so that the task is actually working with that difference, that diversity conflict, which as you mentioned, that’s a source of a number of things like tribalism, which is the negative side of diversity and being different nations and tribes, but also power, control, ego, all of those things. So differences is not necessarily the bad part, it’s just what you do with it. And I think that’s the larger task is just getting to know one another.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
So real, there are so many good questions here. I’m sorry I won’t get to all of them. Just a little question here about suffering. It’s not a little question. The question is about the leaders and the world, different countries who don’t seem to value right action, so to speak, or responsibility for the collective. Good. So I’m pretty sure we can all agree that there’s some pretty awful things that are happening in the world today. So some would even call the policies of our own government. This is an aside. It’s leading into this question of evil in the world, which maybe causes suffering. So tackle that. Anyone evil suffering. Go ahead. Close us out strong here. Rabbi Max.
Rev. Max Antman:
Jews love to talk about suffering. I mean, in the Jewish tradition, we believe in the propensity towards evil. All human beings have the capacity for yetzer rah, an evil inclination and yetzer totha good or compassionate inclination. And we as human beings are fallible and sometimes get drawn into problematic, violent, hateful rhetoric and actions. And we use faith traditions as a way of justifying those actions. I think that if we are following faith traditions, I mean all of these faith traditions for what their intended purpose is, I won’t speak for all of you, but the purpose of tradition is to find meaning in the world, is to have a method by which to live a meaningful life, one that has purpose and grounding and allows you to flourish. And when tradition is used to justify violence or colonialism or starvation or any of the things that we see in our world today that have religious underpinnings, I think from a Jewish tradition, we would argue that that is a defamation of the actual purpose of the tradition itself. So there is a great deal of wrongdoing in the world today. Religion is wrapped up in all of it. And I think that if we were to return to the Jewish principle of repentance is tshuva and the root of it is Shu return. If we practice the turning or the returning to the central tenets of our traditions, I believe and hope that we might find our ways out of some of the conflicts and problematic situations that are happening in the world today.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Thank you. John, where are we with time? Okay, just a couple more minutes then.
Rev. Judith Seizys:
Go ahead, Judith. Okay. So I think that cruelty and suffering is caused by people that don’t have faith and religion, that they are selfish and cruel and that they are out for their own self ag grande for their own wealth and power, and that they just simply sometimes are not empathetic because it’s all about them. So yeah, I think that a lot of these people that are doing these horrible things have also suffered in their life and they don’t understand the depth of their own grief, and so they turn around and force it on others. I’m sure there are many other reasons I could probably go on, but that’s a short.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
Alright, so I think you mentioned Rabbi Max, your answer that how religion can be used for other purposes or not in the way that it was intended or misused. Misused. So one of our questions was about the fundamentalist aspects of every religion. It’s just every path seems to have their more fundamentalist branch. So can anybody speak to that, how that has made perhaps taken principles that were meant for some other purpose and misused them? Does anybody have any thoughts on that?
Rev. Aimee Daniels:
Well, I can speak about new thought because we teach that your thoughts create things. And from the perspective of even though we’re a philosophy, sometimes people treat it like a doctrine that it’s black and white. And so a common thing, I’ll just give an example, which is not so much about the world, but is more about the experience that we’re each having in our own life. If your thoughts create things and you get sick, what does that say about where your thoughts were? I’ve seen people in new thought be critical of people they got sick or something went wrong for them, or whatever else might happen in life that causes suffering or things to go wrong. And the things that are happening in our life are like our curriculum. If it’s happening to us, this is what we believe. If it’s happening to us, it’s happening for us.
So if I’m experiencing something, it’s an invitation for me to go deeper into my own practice, my own faith to move through it. And that is the opportunity we have right now in the world just to talk about what’s going on in the world is for us to all believe that something else is possible even though we don’t see it right now, to really hold a higher vision. We say in centers for spiritual living, a world that works for everyone, no one’s excluded from that. It’s everyone. And to still hold the possibility of that because in the history of the world, there’s been a lot of dark times. This is just history repeating itself. Sadly, it seems to happen every a hundred years or so when people forget what happened before. And so it’s really important for us to believe something else is different and to have the faith and to put that into our prayers and our practice instead of falling into what’s super easy right now. And I’m just as guilty to say, look at this, this is wrong. But it’s like when I pray I need to hold the higher possibility.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
So I’m just going to give one last and then we’re going to stop.
Archana Lal-Tabak:
I just wanted to share about this thought of the fundamentalist and the image that came to my mind was Mahatma Gandhi actually, because in his ashram in India, he had prayers from every culture. He was so interfaith in the Gandhi village that he would have prayers from every tradition, and he was killed by a fundamentalist Hindu who got upset that he was giving more to the Muslims at the time of India’s partition and things like that. So I just want to say that that in my heart is really dear because when we’re speaking about interfaith, my family, we grew up going to all the different faiths. That’s why I’m trans denominational. We belong to a Buddhist sangha, we go to Christian places with our Christian friends, we come to, Cityside we love it so much. It encompasses everything. And yet I’m Hindu because of my family’s aria samag where we speak, they ask us to speak all the time. So I think interfaith is the answer when the fundamentalist is like the extreme because we have this beautiful person and so many beautiful people. John Lennon is another, right? We have so many fundamentalists that have killed beautiful people. Martin Luther King. Okay, I’m going to stop. Okay, so the point being that we have have to love each other in interfaith.
Rev. Judy Ranniger-Meza:
And so I’m going to stop us all at this point and ask, we usually end a talk or part of the service with a prayer. So I’m going to ask Reverend Aimee to do that. Okay?
Rev. Aimee Daniels:
Great. And first, let me thank each one of you for being here. I mean, what a beautiful morning and special thanks to Judy who did so very much work on this. So you can give him a little applause before I pray. Thank you all. So we pray affirmatively. And so I’m just going to invite you to close your eyes and if you want to say your own little prayer, if you have a different path, you can do that. But in this moment, I’m just recognizing the source, this energy, this God, the universe by whatever name we call it, this presence and power of love and goodness and grace and possibility, this healing, presence and power. And I know that I’m one with this presence and power. I’m one with this healing, this love, this grace, this divine connection. And as I know this for myself, I know this for each person hearing my words, I know that we are all one with this energy of love, light of possibility, of healing, of divine connection, the oneness itself. So from this place of oneness, I just speak a word of blessing on everyone who is here today. I just bless this interfaith conversation and I hold it high just knowing that the more that we understand each other and the more that we are open to different ways of thinking, the more that we are individually healed.
And as we heal individually, we heal collectively because this love comes into the world more fully, this compassion, this understanding. And so this is what I’m knowing and declaring for all of us that our hearts are opened wide, that more and more all the time, we are recognizing our oneness, that we are healing our own sense of separation, and that we are building connections in community in the world. I just know and declare that a different experience is possible in this world. And I just, no one claim that all these conflicts are resolved and that we are all returned to this heart of love, which is the truth of our being. This is what I say yes to, and I know that God’s got this. I know that there is a power and presence bigger than us that can make this prayer. So I say yes to this on behalf of all of us. I’m grateful for this. I’m grateful for this beautiful panel. I’m grateful for Reverend Judy, and I’m grateful to know that this love that we are a part of can truly heal the world. And it’s happening now with so much gratitude together, we say, and so it is. Amen.